tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post1489348772786777641..comments2023-10-30T15:13:22.680+00:00Comments on Strictly Writing: To fuck or not to fuck?DThttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11803989273524731892noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-18248103548966441312010-04-05T10:21:29.678+01:002010-04-05T10:21:29.678+01:00Interesting points, Olivia. I like the sound of yo...Interesting points, Olivia. I like the sound of your mum.<br /><br />I'm now reading Lionel Shriver's latest, and she swears a lot in the narrative as well as the dialogue. Albeit, a (fairly loose) form of free-indirect narrative, but it reads oddly, the fucking alonside the rest of her polished and pristine English. We're reading it aloud.Roderic Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519267912305907364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-20777672536271057692010-04-02T17:31:52.975+01:002010-04-02T17:31:52.975+01:00You're right, Rod - this is a subject that has...You're right, Rod - this is a subject that hasn't been discussed much on blogs at all (since I started reading and writing them, anyway), and it's very fucking interesting! <br />OK, I'll be honest. I was a short story writer first (for the likes of The People's Friend etc - and by the way I still write for them and have no problem keeping my language fit for a vicar's tea party when necessary). But when I wrote my first novel it was so liberating to be able to use the language my characters would REALLY use, I was pretty liberal with the swearing. The book was fairly humorous and the language just seemed to 'go' with it ... it wasn't done to shock. I did wonder what my poor old mum would think (she was then in her 80s), but bless her - she defended me against all criticisms by any of her geriatric mates, and told them stoutly that if she had the problems my heroine had, she'd certainly say more than 'bloody hell' herself! <br />I agree with you about the 'c' word, and wonder why it is that we're all still offended by that one. But ... we should remember that until 1960, when Penguin were found not guilty under the Obscene Publications Act for publishing the full unexpurgated edition of 'Lady Chatterly's Lover', it was impossible for an author to use any so-called 'unprintable' word. Not very long ago really (and yes, I do remember it!).Sheila Nortonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13997206301877289623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-21181685578430534972010-04-01T16:11:22.662+01:002010-04-01T16:11:22.662+01:00Great post. Strangely enough, now I think about it...Great post. Strangely enough, now I think about it, I only swear a lot at home in front of my partner, and vice versa! <br />In my writing, if I feel like the character would swear, and not just in dialogue, then they will. I don't suppose that's the only thing stopping me getting published :-)Jacqueline Christodoulou-Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318598645550765618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-11759290882718910212010-03-31T12:18:42.846+01:002010-03-31T12:18:42.846+01:00In that case you can refer to me as a blogshite.In that case you can refer to me as a blogshite.Roderic Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519267912305907364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-78644546026239236182010-03-31T11:57:06.867+01:002010-03-31T11:57:06.867+01:00An amusing blog Rod, and I also keep swearing for ...An amusing blog Rod, and I also keep swearing for dialogue in writing. In real life I rarely swear, and don't like hearing people speak when most of their sentences are made up of swearing. This probably makes me a swearing snob, as I do enjoy the odd well timed word which feels like a guilty pleasure. Infact, more than a snob I'm a complete hypocrite, as those frequent swearers I often mentally refer to as gobshites.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-12173498875890644472010-03-30T09:51:49.539+01:002010-03-30T09:51:49.539+01:00Depends on the context and the character and the v...Depends on the context and the character and the voice of the story...Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-21063810389870112802010-03-30T09:48:47.424+01:002010-03-30T09:48:47.424+01:00Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, Charlotte and Emily ...Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, Charlotte and Emily Bronte, Mrs. Gaskell, Thomas Hardy - all great novelists and hardly a four letter word between them. Probably because they wouldn't have been printed otherwise! Hardy couldn't get a poem about abortion printed even when it was only obliquely suggested. However, they managed pretty well without. I think one of the points about swearing is that unless it is very appropriately used, it jerks the reader out of the story, which is never a good thing to do. Interesting post, though.Carmel Waldronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07621502797481741040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-62225431568292578462010-03-29T23:42:27.449+01:002010-03-29T23:42:27.449+01:00Fuck ;)Fuck ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08599095035971045492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-20963250587868130092010-03-29T21:17:04.424+01:002010-03-29T21:17:04.424+01:00Thanks for all the great comments.Thanks for all the great comments.Roderic Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519267912305907364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-35999744805248035212010-03-29T19:15:59.940+01:002010-03-29T19:15:59.940+01:00I'm a fan of swearing. At least, it was someth...I'm a fan of swearing. At least, it was something I thought long and hard about for my characters - and I had different ways of swearing for each character. I think i have two that swear a lot and the rest don't particularly. I like a bit of creativity in swearing too. The c word (now, you see, to say the c word rather than just to write it here is more offensive to me than just writing it, but I'll be good) is a fine swearword as far as I'm concerned. I hate the way people act like it is so shocking for the ladies...I also think that words like "prick" are very underused. (See why can I write prick but not cun...Shhhhhhhh!) Swearing is just wonderful-sounding stuff sometimes and people should use it more creatively and have fun with it. If it doesn't have the right sound, it can't work as a swearword anyway. That's why we use them for emphasis. <br /><br />I do find novels pretending to be hard and raw and full of swearing annoying sometimes. But I wouldn't find them annoying if they were like Roddy Doyle - so I think it's posturing thing rather than the swearing - that you can sense the phoniness...<br /><br />People can also be perfectly disgusting without swearing. In some ways swearing has become divorced from meaning and is all about "vulgarity" as a person instead. I'm all for a bit of that too. :)Rosybhttp://vulpeslibris.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-82223624337847602762010-03-29T19:11:25.151+01:002010-03-29T19:11:25.151+01:00I'd love to give my views on this but am laugh...I'd love to give my views on this but am laughing so much I can hardly see the bastard keyboard!Caroline Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04708248040141519582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-62574800272137666672010-03-29T17:55:27.166+01:002010-03-29T17:55:27.166+01:00To me, the character dictates whether or not to us...To me, the character dictates whether or not to use swear words. Frankly, there would be some situations when it would be ridiculous not to use swear words.<br />In the current WIP, I'm dealing with gang culture and if I want there to be any authenticity I cannot back away from saying things which I wouldn't.<br /><br />And actually, it's not the swearing that makes me cringe, it's the racial or homophobic terms that test me.<br />HBxHelen Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00266205672947750373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-81919903189161956522010-03-29T16:07:25.807+01:002010-03-29T16:07:25.807+01:00Love the post, Rod, and the poem too!
I make up f...Love the post, Rod, and the poem too!<br /><br />I make up for not being allowed to swear in my stories by effin' and blindin' a great deal in the privacy of my own home.<br /><br />Love the line from "The Commitments" too, Womagwriter!Geraldine Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01575892095296317266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-51461589920023929372010-03-29T15:35:22.316+01:002010-03-29T15:35:22.316+01:00I usually don't swear. When I do it is becaus...I usually don't swear. When I do it is because I have been pushed so far, nothing else is appropriate. <br /><br />Dialogue is where I use it in my writing.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07524878248746427258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-89768283345053086012010-03-29T15:15:14.785+01:002010-03-29T15:15:14.785+01:00My husband shouts 'F***wit' at politicians...My husband shouts 'F***wit' at politicians on TV. Lovely word.Gina Rossihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16606122346165533631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-81234358238433174532010-03-29T14:06:54.635+01:002010-03-29T14:06:54.635+01:00There's a culture element to this too - if you...There's a culture element to this too - if you are writing a story set in downtown Dublin you'd have to include a lot of swearing, because that's how people talk there (my husband and in-laws are Irish so I'm well aware of their speech patterns). You can downgrade fuck to feck, which is useful if the mother-in-law is around. Likewise shit to shite. But you do need to use these words.<br /><br />My favourite line from The Commitments, oft repeated in our household is: 'Fuck off, you fat fucker.' Brilliant! Straight out of the Oscar Wilde school of Wit and Repartee.Kath McGurlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02526923882402757423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-51164717804532844262010-03-29T13:19:10.070+01:002010-03-29T13:19:10.070+01:00I don't mind it in principle but think there i...I don't mind it in principle but think there is too much of it in fiction. It's lazy and a cheap way to sound like you're a 'strong' writer. As a reader only, as I've never published anything except on the net, I feel it can get to you and turn you off literature and reading, particularly since the worst swearers sell the most; look at Welsh and Marian Keyes; she uses 'fuckhead' and other such words in her latest Anybody Out There and it's a real turn-off for me, particularly since she seems a well educated and well-brought-up girl. Contemporary literature panders too much to vulgarity; few writers from the 70s on are worth reading on account of the dope culture and vulgarity. eqAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-18085355236145803562010-03-29T13:02:07.366+01:002010-03-29T13:02:07.366+01:00Why does the F word fly out of my mouth all by its...Why does the F word fly out of my mouth all by itself when my mother-in-law is around? Usually, I don't swear.<br />Picture this: The other day in Oxford, I saw a female student wobbling along on her bike over the hallowed cobbles, under the dreaming spires etc. A male student crossed the road and she almost ran him over.<br />"I say! Do watch out!" he called.<br />"You watch out, yer f***ing toff!" she yelled.<br />It was perfect.Gina Rossihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16606122346165533631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-20133937342931558122010-03-29T12:27:41.136+01:002010-03-29T12:27:41.136+01:00I'm not the swearing sort in everyday life, bu...I'm not the swearing sort in everyday life, but my main character is fond of the f-word. I think swearing--specifically, what words characters use in front of which people in which situations--can show a few things about characters.Sandra Ulbrich Almazanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15365908651235829765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-80053634857535603482010-03-29T11:58:57.305+01:002010-03-29T11:58:57.305+01:00I'm not a person who swears much in everyday l...I'm not a person who swears much in everyday life - unless I stubb my toe and it really hurts, then I might let rip with the word fuck a few times.<br /><br />I have 'fuck' in my novel once I think, and a few bloodys - all in the dialogue - but that's about it.<br /><br />I did write a short story, which was published in Twisted Tongue, and that had lot of swear words; but it was about a homeless schizophrenic, and that was how he spoke.<br /><br />As for the c*** word - I absolutely hate it. I personally find it a really vulgar word!Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-81076948542457925692010-03-29T10:56:41.908+01:002010-03-29T10:56:41.908+01:00Love the poem, Rod!
This makes me ponder the whole...Love the poem, Rod!<br />This makes me ponder the whole thing about 'breaking out' - writing beyond the accepted norms. Not that swearing does, these days, particularly. But for me your post is a reminder that sometime we need to break out and shock - ourselves. <br />SusiexSusie Nott-Bowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08428000582406338267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-82962517527631708512010-03-29T10:44:26.285+01:002010-03-29T10:44:26.285+01:00I do have one f-word in my novel, and it was said ...I do have one f-word in my novel, and it was said in extremis.<br /><br />It's funny (and a real double-standard) because I do curse under my breath to myself quite a lot, but generally I find swearing offensive. I hate the sound of it, find it ugly and aggressive, but maybe that says more about me! <br /><br />I've tried to embrace the Gordon Ramsay's of the world, but end up thinking "honestly, there's just no NEED. It ISN'T big or clever, for f***'s sake, it just means you can't communicate effectively in any other way, or you're just trying to shock."<br /><br />Obviously if it's in-keeping with a character's nature in a novel that's fine, but I don't like them strewn around gratuitously :o)<br /><br />(Ooh, I've turned into my grandma!)Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05986874444030474719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-30215618909586897692010-03-29T10:30:11.657+01:002010-03-29T10:30:11.657+01:00Very funny post, Roderic. As a writer for teenager...Very funny post, Roderic. As a writer for teenagers this is even more of an issue for me, especially as I swear all the time in real life. <br /><br />But the thing is oral language is not the same as written language even written dialogue. Once you write something down it can be read, reread, considered, even studied. So swearing can seem less spontaneous and acquire greater significance than you really desired.<br /><br />Also swearing does date. 'Ruddy hell!' for example, commonly considered mild swearing when I was a child, is scarcely ever heard these days. And even 'fuck' is not what it used to be.<br /><br />For these reasons, I tend to say clear of it.Brian Keaneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17754984212153946279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-55208911801556670572010-03-29T10:02:26.837+01:002010-03-29T10:02:26.837+01:00Hi
I always endeavour never to write load of coc...Hi<br /><br />I always endeavour never to write load of cock n bull but always end up with what is frankly pretty shite, hence me wallowing in a pile of poo that passes for pissy fiction.<br /><br />:-)<br /><br />Take care<br />p.s. Thank you for allowing me a small space to vent.<br />xOld Kittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13185547869183611159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2725342624231517088.post-27746221204384667142010-03-29T09:44:57.749+01:002010-03-29T09:44:57.749+01:00Great post. Yes, I agree that when it comes to swe...Great post. Yes, I agree that when it comes to swearing, less is more (a bit like adjectives of quality, really. And adverbs ditto.). And that, on the whole, it only works in dialogue, or in directly quoted thought. Which means it can crop up in free indirect style... It does spread.<br /><br />But I do have trouble avoiding the word you're avoiding, not as a swear, but as a word, because to me it's no worse than the other anglo-saxon words for other parts of the anatomy. Readers trip up on it, in a way that I don't. Never have solved that one.<br /><br />BTW, given the title of the post, I'd love to see what the stats show, and what searches found it (You should have seen my stats after I titled a post 'Brainy and Sexy'...)Emma Darwinhttp://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/noreply@blogger.com